Participant chat from Roundtable webinar, Let’s talk about: Coaching across difference, with Fenella Trevillion and Will James, hosted by Coaching at Work editor Liz Hall
15 April 2024, online
The first in a series of webinars and dialogues from the Roundtable for Race Equity in Coaching on moving race equity from the margins to the mainstream
What participants said (anonymized)
“The term ‘people of colour’ is widely used but I’d like to offer that it’s divisive and it largely reduces people just to colour. And white is a colour too yet some white people take themselves out of the equation and inadvertently become the ‘benchmark’. A term such as ‘people of different heritage’ may be an alternative. PoC is a western centric way of labelling ‘others’. The language of discussing differences needs work too.”
“I share your concern – I’m white which is a colour, and the phrase may not be meant as a form of othering but can have that impact. I’m looking forward to a book by Rita Symons coming out at the end of this year on stepping into otherness in coaching.”
“I’m exceedingly grateful for this conversation. I’ve been coaching in South Africa since 2013, on and off. In all that period, I’ve not had a white client. This raised lots of questions in me, schizoid questions, really, because I began to question my ability as a coach, a field I got to love greatly, instead of placing the issue in the historical context of South Africa: the “coloniality” of whiteness in South Africa: Whites teach; Blacks are taught; if they teach, certainly not to a white person. So, my coaching has been largely in government circles and not much in the private sector where the control is largely in white hands.
“‘Perfectionism’ is one of the key characteristics of white supremacy – it is one of the reasons we all struggle with vulnerability on race so much”
This makes me reflect on immunity to change. As a white coach, I might have a commitment to bringing a commitment to racial equity into my ‘coaching expertise’ but I also have unconscious commitments that I need to explore – to be right, to be perfect, to be approved of, to belong. It strikes me that to share my embodied experience in the moment is a truer, more authentic doorway into a different kind of dialogue.”
In my experience much of the white British population are not used to talking about colonial history in a way that helps when talking to people with a different heritage – hence the silences & awkwardness. Some self-reflection on the legacy of colonialism on the white psyche is important for people especially coaches to do.
I agree. This level of psychosocial understanding is missing but so important.
It also links to the notion of there having to be a solution to everything, rather than sitting with complexity, dialogue, opening up, exploring. My sense is that we have become even more polarised as a society – we see it in politics, right and wrong, good and bad. And the result can be seen in so many isms. As we look at this issue, and step back, we see the link with our choice of economic systems, social systems, and resulting also in climate injustice and so on. How do we talk about this without the systems that have led to it, it is so interconnected?
100% Therein lies the challenge…it is absolutely why we have to tackle it at a systems level – ask ourselves what in the system is upholding the inequity?
These unconscious commitments carry so much power, I agree. Such an interesting reflection
Agree. As a resource, I found ‘Me and White Supremacy’ the most useful (and really challenging) book to do this work. Very reflection and action focused. Reading it a second time I noticed many more things that I’d missed the first time due to my resistance to being challenged so deeply. Unpeeling layers.
if we step back who is going to do the work? That is my takeaway thus far. My observation since I joined the coaching community three years ago. I agree that coaching in South Africa is prevalent in the white community. As a coach of different heritage who has the privilege of a view to both worlds, I feel we need to put our why of coaching at the centre, embrace diversity and positive regard for all. I feel most wellness cases that are dealt with by psychologists could have been resolved at coaching level, my experience reveals that the challenge people face is solving their challenges. How do we then incorporate coaching into this value system? How do we include all races – skills transfer so that Black coaches are also received with regard and they can participate meaningfully. I am a very passionate coach
A classic white defensive reaction to racism is “I treat people the same regardless of skin colour” … overcoming the inability to see and understand lived experiences of marginalised people of different heritages is the starting point
The mistake I made initially was that I was seeking the “right answer” (reference the orientation towards perfection etc earlier)… but when I finished Layla Saad’s Me and White Supremacy, I realised that this is a lifetime of work … which was quite liberating. we just have to keep exploring, asking, listening, and dialoguing … and acting
So true – denial, defensiveness – all tools that we employ that uphold the inequity
Thank you for this conversation so necessary and appreciated
So grateful for this conversation, hope it is the first of many more. Am aware there are South African coaches here who may have rich experiences to share that may be slightly different from the UK context.
Thinking about individualist US/UK approach to coaching, could opening up to the more collectivist approach of many other cultures inform our ability as coaches to see others’ full humanity and our mutual interdependence (e.g. Ubuntu coaching)?
I am curious if there are companies/institutions seeking out coaches for supporting the journey of more inclusive – less racist work spaces. For those organizations claiming to have inclusion as a value, it seems like a reasonable question to ask- what have you done about it?
Kudos to you Liz, Will and Fenella – a deeply powerful and authentic conversation – this and the wider series is so needed in the coaching profession … we still have so far to go
US history and UK race history are very different. Asian colonial history is very different. Different approaches are needed to explore rather than treating all other history and cultural communities the same.
As a black woman, i have made a deliberate choice for a white male client as a learning opportunity for both of us, only to receive indirect feedback that i cannot help him as a coach … how do we break this down in the coaching space?
Similarly black / brown coaches are not selected in corporate coaching pools
Such an important conversation gently held, thank you both so much
My observation Fenella, is that so much of your learning has taken place ‘outside’ of the coaching space i.e. the work is on you first and foremost. Thank you for such an honest and vulnerable sharing in experience.
Thank you for this wide eye-opening conversation. It has truly shifted my understanding to my own coaching dilemma, especially around growth, development, and diversity. One has to be willing to challenge oneself to explore the uncomfortable, remembering it is about the coachee not about the coach
Thank you for the conversation – interested to be part of this ongoing dialogue and communities of accountability. Thank you Will and Fenella.
A conundrum: Coaching is a selfless process. Its more about the coachee.
Very much appreciate the examples Will and bringing the conversation back into your experience as a coach, hugely appreciative
Thank you very much, excellent discussion 🙏🏽
This has been a soft and powerful conversation that has given me the challenge to ‘stay awake’ and have the courage and skill to say what is present
Thank you all. Great discussion!
Thank you all so much, so rich and deep
Thank you for such an eye opening discussion
Thank you, important conversation
Very powerful session – thank you x
- To access the webinar go here: https://us06web.zoom.us/rec/share/niUBQE3WgxhHJ-7DQYwulE1y1yvJsdFhFKaieDiDOsAogPo5sl9-Xg2QOvQkInlz.vkpOvv7-4z4F9R9t